Thursday, October 04, 2012

What is the big deal with gay marriage?

If you really don't know what the big deal is about gay marriage, please, PLEASE, take the time to educate yourself! The first place to go is this letter, written by some law professors who were expressing concern about gay marriage in New York (the concerns are valid for the entire country).

Then check out what has happened in Massachusetts since they made gay marriage legal. Is this really what you want for our country--for your children?  If so, Barack Obama is your guy!

Unfortunately, on this issue, Romney isn't much better. For those of us who oppose gay marriage, our only hope is that Romney will pay some attention to his base.

Finally, if you really need to see the true face of homosexuality--as opposed to the white-washed propaganda you get from the media and Hollywood--you could check out San Francisco's annual Folsom Street Fair. Hint: when gays put on their own festival it is never about loving, monogamous families. This is the side of homosexuality that the media doesn't show you.


Danny Klopovic said...

It is a pity, that as usual, yet another evangelical - which I am guessing the poster is - is dishonest when it comes to homosexuals. Whilst it is true that the Folsom Street Fair is a gay community event, it is hardly true as Dennis implies, that "gays" in general support such things. There are plenty of gay and lesbian people who do not care for events like Folsom but you wouldn't know it from the misrepresentation that Dennis engages in - unfortunately yet another evangelical Christian that one should dismiss

Dennis said...

Thank you, Danny, that is great news! Help me out here. Can you name a couple of prominent gay rights organizations that have publicly distanced themselves from the debauchery and anti-Christian bigotry so prominent in gay festivals like the Folsom Street Fair or Winter Wickedness? Can you give me some examples of gay parades or festivals that are entirely "G" rated, so to speak?

I would expect gay advocates to dismiss me but Christian readers should at least read my link to the law professors I cited before dismissing my concerns as quickly as Danny does.

Danny Klopovic said...

I can't comment on the American scene since I am Australian. Here in Melbourne, the Midsumma Festival is both a very family friendly and queer festival. There is nothing graphic or sexual about what goes on at Midsumma - and I venture to guess that there are plenty of other similar events in the USA. Evangelical/fundamentalists however do seem to like to focus on the lurid rather than the diversity that characterises queer people just like anyone else.

As for anti-Christian claims, well I must say I have very little sympathy for this complaint. As a Christian of the Anabaptist variety (and yes I did read the links proffered but see it as scare-mongering), I deplore the stridency of Evangelicals/fundamentalists - though it seems that the American variety of same are far worse than their equivalents here in Australia. If anything, I must say I view American Evangelicals / Fundamentalists pretty much in the same way that those of that ilk view gay and lesbian people - a depraved and immoral lot.

I think this completes it from my end - the moral disgust I experience with sites like this makes it too difficult to continue.

Dennis said...

First, you said you can’t “comment on the American scene.” But you did, Danny. You know that I am American and was addressing “the American scene” yet you jumped right in calling me dishonest and judging something that by your own admission, you know nothing about.

You wrote “Evangelical/fundamentalists however do seem to like to focus on the lurid rather than the diversity that characterises queer people just like anyone else.”

That is probably because it is those who are “lurid” (to use your expression) and radical who concern us. Contrary to your apparent perceptions, most of us Evangelicals are quite tolerant toward the non-lurid, non-radical gay people. One of my Christian sons lived next door to a gay couple for a long time and they got along fine. We are not fighting to take away gay people’s rights to live together or have hospital visitations or to jointly own homes, etc. Most of us would actively fight against physical or verbal abuse of gay people and many Evangelicals are helping in the fight against AIDS.

We are a little less understanding, however, when gay people want to prance down public streets half naked or with whips in SM outfits; or when they put on hateful public displays that mock our faith (Like the advertisement for the Folsom Street fair which pictured the last supper with sex toys on the table and the disciples in SM dress; or at the Fair when they had a SM display of people being attached to a cross and whipped); or in a few cases in America when gay advocates attacked Christian churches. And then we are puzzled when almost no one in the gay community protests this hatred.

(continued below)

Dennis said...

What really gets us upset, however, (and remember, I am talking about “the American scene”) is when our children are taught in public schools that anyone who disagrees with homosexuality is a bigot!

We also get upset at the erosion of religious freedom that the law professors were talking about in the link you said you read. For you to simply dismiss them as fear mongering demonstrates that you really don’t understand the issues (or don't care about religious freedom) and it makes it hard for me to take you seriously.

These law professors are not just warning of possible upcoming threats to religious freedom, they are talking about things that have already happened in America. But, as you said, you know nothing about the American scene.

But then, it’s not just in America. In Canada a pastor faced years of persecution by some Canadian human rights commission simply because he taught the biblical teaching that homosexual behavior was wrong. I know you would disagree with the pastor but I hope you would support freedom of speech.

Finally, you wrote, “I view American Evangelicals / Fundamentalists pretty much in the same way that those of that ilk view gay and lesbian people - a depraved and immoral lot.”

Apparently, all you know about American Evangelicals is the caricature you get from the media. If all I knew about American Evangelicals was what I saw in the movies or in the news, I wouldn’t like us either.

I teach at a pretty conservative Christian College with over a thousand students and I don’t know anyone here who hates gay people! In fact, one hot summer a few years ago when some gay rights group protested our college for not allowing homosexual behavior in the code of conduct, no one harassed them (as they were doing to us) and some from our college even brought them food and drinks. I would suggest that much of what you think you know about American Evangelicalism just isn’t so.

On the other hand, you are certainly right that you and I have very different moral compasses. Evangelicals base their moral compass on the writings of the Jewish prophets and followers of Jesus collected in the Bible. My guess is that you would dismiss much of that as outdated bigotry.

Further, my guess is that your morality is largely based on what you personally want to do, and/or what your culture tells you is OK. My problem with basing morality on what someone personally wants to do is that it can make what Ted Bundy (serial killer) or Adolf Hitler did “moral.”

My problem with basing morality on culture is that culture is constantly changing and is often depraved. German culture once accepted racial hatred of Jews to be moral. Most of the world’s cultures once believed it was moral to kidnap and enslave innocent people. Some cultures accept wife beating as moral. And all of them no doubt think they are “enlightened.”

Not all that long ago western culture believed homosexual behavior to be immoral but now--due in no small part to media propaganda—Western society not only accepts homosexual behavior as moral, but there are growing pressures in America to accept polygamy, polyamory, bestiality and even incest and pedophilia as moral as well! Some of us would say this is depraved.

So you and I have very different moral compasses. On this we agree. Thanks for your input.