Sunday, April 26, 2009

Miss America, braver than pastors

Doug Giles is a seminary-trained pastor, writer and columnist. He certainly doesn't sound like your stereotypical pastor :-) but his short article "Miss California is braver than some pastors" makes an excellent point! Unless more pastors heed his challenge, America is lost.

11 comments:

trshev said...

I support The gay weddings. Miss America contestants have the right to express their truths whether we agree or not. I would rather she spoke honestly thant lie to be politically correct for the popularity of the show. She was asked and she answered. Maybe we should have a "Don't ask- Don't tell" policy for beauty contests.

jazzycat said...

trshev,
Would you re-define marriage in any other way or would you limit it to this one exception?

trshev said...

If two people are of legal age and are in love, they should have the full rights granted to a man and a woman.Does tis mean we should allow children to marry? No.
I know people who are gay and lesbians and have had very long term monogamous relationships and yet are dnied the same rights afforded to legally married couples. I have been in a 25 yr. heterosexual marriage and have a heterosexual daughter, so I am not personally affected by an agenda. But seing fiends who are committed to each other for years and denied their full happiness and legal rights is wrong. i have not heard of anyone promoting weddings between children or animals so that point is moot.

jazzycat said...

trshev,
We are talking about the defintion of marriage and you want to limit it to two people. Why? If we can allow abnormal same sex marriage, surely you can extend the rights to include polygamy.

Ask yourself truthfully if you would be just as happy if your daughter were homosexual. Can you honestly say that when she was growing up, it did not matter to you?

trshev said...

When I was younger, I, as many,thought gay people were wierd and twisted. I have softened on the issue over the years as I have gotten to know people of the community. Science has proved that there is a genetic difference in the chromosone of most gay men. It is not their fault they are the way they are. The lesbian issue is still not fully understood scientificaly and may be more of a choice issue, based on the total crap they have had to endure from obnoxious men. We are not all saints.
If my daughter had grown into a lesbian situation, would I be dissppointed? Hurt? Maybe. But if it made her happier because she could not find love elsewhere, I would probably accept her decision and love her just the same.
There was a time when it was "evil" for a white person to marry a Black or a Native American. Should we return to that era? When gay marriage becomes common, it will no longer be "ab"normal, will it?
I've gotta run, but I will give the polygamy question some thought and get back to you.

jazzycat said...

trshev,
You said.....
When gay marriage becomes common, it will no longer be "ab"normal, will it?I was actually talking about the anatomy and the methods of sexual relations in marriage. It won't ever be normal for homosexuals, will it? It's not normal in bestiality or pedophilia either, but that does not mean people don't have these abnormal desires.

I object to redefining marriage and I might add that is the stated position of Obama and most democrats and republicans. Bringing up racial prejudice of the past is no argument for changing the marriage definition.

trshev said...

Bringing up racial prejudice is the same thing. Hating someone because of the way they are born is prejudice. Plain and simple. I don't care to think of the anatomical method of homosexual sex just as much as I don't want to share sexual position stories about what you or I do with our spouses. Homosexuals perform the same acts as married consenting heterosexual adults. That is their business, not mine or yours.
I am neither Democrat or Republican, I did vote for Obama and respect his views, just as I did Regan and Nixon and Ford and Clinton,etc. I don't really care what most people believe, I make up my own mind on the subject at hand. Sometimes the majority is wrong, and sometimes I think we spend way too much time worrying about things we really don't need to worry about, like two people who love each other wanting to get married. In one of my earlier posts, I used the word "monogomous" relation, marriage should be between two people, I agree. On the other issue we will maybe never agree and I respect your opinion just as I respect Miss Americas', I had the same opinion once. People sometimes change. I did and I feel no remorse or guilt of sin for changing. I feel great.

jazzycat said...

trshev,
Hating someone because of the way they are born is prejudice.What has that got to do with the definition of marriage? Do you think those who oppose homosexual marriage, like Obama, hate homosexuals? This is a red herring that is successfully used by the pro homosexual marriage lobby in their propaganda.

trshev said...

If they are genetically born as a homosexual, why should they be discriminated against? If I was born blind or without legs or with two noses, should I not be entitled to the same rights as "normal" people?
I guess that kind of raises the question, "is homosexuality a handicap?", and if so, because they are born with it, what should we really do about it? Denying them equal rights under the law comes down to discrimination. I really think, given that most of our laws say we are not allowed to discriminate based on race, religious belief, nationality, sex or sexual orientation, that they should be allowed to marry.
I don't think Obama hates gays, but he has political aspirations and is trying to stay politicall correct on the subject. The majority probably are against it, but as science advances and we lose more and more old superstitions, more people have a better understanding of the nature of the beast. Religion also plays a very powerful force on the minds of people. When we are taught from birth what is "right", it becomes very embedded in our brains, whether it is right or not. It was once right to crusade against the non-believers and torture them and kill them. The church really believed that was right. Christians have not always been right. Muslims behead gays. The Irish Protestants and Catholics have a history of hatred for each other, America kept silent for a long time in WWII about the known extermination of the Jews, even though we are suppose to be a "Christian" country.
All I am saying, is we have been wrong about things in the past, have changed for the better, sometimes for the worse, but most times we eventually get it right, and I think the right thing to do is allow these people the right to be happy in their relationships as married "couples", with the same rights as you and I, such as medical issues, social security, tax deductions,etc. Some states have allowed it, but nationally they are denied. The world will not end because of this. The homosexuals as a whole are not out molesting young boys and cats. Yes, I am sure there are some twisted ones out there, just as there are perverted heterosexuals committing horrendous crimes. I think the majority of them live very normal lives and just want to be left alone and enjoy their lives, rightfully so,as the rest of us.

jazzycat said...

trshev,
You seemed to have lost your focus and have gone down many new rabbit trails.

By denying marriage rights to multiple partners [polygamy], you are restricting their rights and happiness; therefore, by your logic you must hate polygamists.
You are discriminating just as much the current definition of marriage discriminates on gender, age, genetics, etc.

You have rejected the definition that the God of the Holy Bible has given in favor of one that suits your own world-view. Yours is a discriminatory world-view based on your preferences rather than a foundation such as my Christian world-view. That is the bottom line of this argument.

trshev said...

If God made people with mixed up chromosones, in other words, gay, did he do it on purpose so that they would have to suffer purposely? If someone is born without legs or an arm or is blind or has some other debilitating genetic quirk, we try to help that person find their way to a meaningful life and overcome their obstacle. I know a lot of religions say that homosexuality can be cured by prayer. They are wrong. A person born without an arm can not grow another arm by prayer. He can be fitted with a prosthetic, to give the illusion that he has an arm, but the fact is, he still has no arm.
Yes, I went down many trails. The subject goes much deeper than just what the Bible says. 6 billion people on this earth and we all have our point of view and our own inner truth. I have been soured by religions in general. You are basing your views on the Bible and the Christian way of thinking. Not everyone in this world hold Christianity as the true answer to life and its mysteries. I am fascinated by the whole thing too, but from a different point of view. I find Jesus a very interesting character who said a lot of profound things, if he really said them. They are good words. Mohammad said many good things, as did Buddha and many other spiritual leaders of their time. I think the truth is still being evasive and it lies within all of us and not just from the Bible. we will never agree. That's life. I wish you a good one.