Thursday, May 01, 2008

Obama and Israel

In the American Thinker:
Pakistan and North Korea have engaged in a nuclear bazaar to sell nuclear technology; Iran has spent billions to develop a nuclear weapons arsenal; Syria
is cooperating with North Korea (and probably Iran) on weapons of mass destruction . They all have monetary or geopolitical reasons to do so. Iran wants to be a hegemonic power in the region-and also may very well have theological "reasons" for developing nuclear weapons. Saddam Hussein was a megalomaniac who wanted nuclear arms to expand his power.

Yet somehow, Cirincione blames Israel for nuclear proliferation and seemingly wants to pressure Israel to shut down its nuclear program and strip itself of any nuclear weapons it may or may not have in its inventory. This man was chosen by Barack Obama to be one of his top advisers in the area of nuclear proliferation. He is also another in a disconcertingly long line of Obama advisers, who seemingly have an anti-Israel bias and who would be very willing to apply American pressure on our tiny ally to disarm itself in the face of its mortal enemies. [emphasis added]
Hmm, no wonder Hamas political adviser Ahmed Yousef said, “Actually, we like Mr. Obama. We hope he will [win] the election…”


L'oiseau said...

So, Israel is allowed to have nuclear weapons, but Iran, Syria, Pakistan, and Iraq aren't. Who is anti-what now?

St.Lee said...

Let me answer that! I, for one, am anti- nuclear weapens in the hands of any nation that desperately wants to destroy another nation and maybe even kill every member of that nation if possible.

I must admit I am also anti- nuclear weapens in the hands of nations lead by madmen who are likely to kill untold numbers of people.

Dennis said...

We'll said, Lee.

l'oiseau, I can't believe you are comparing Israel with Syria, Iran and Pakistan!!! Unbelievable! Thats a bit like comparing the avererage citizens with the mafia!

Brent said...

Sorry to break it to you, but yet another of your consevative "news" sources has its facts 100% wrong. Please see this link for the facts about Cirincione (

Now, it took me about two minutes to find this. You would think your source (or even you) could bother to research before writing something.

For those not wanting to read the full link, the key item is this: Cirincione says, "I am not a top advisor to Senator Obama. I have never met the Senator. I have written occasional memos to his campaign and publicly endorsed his candidacy, but I am afraid there is no way I could be considered, as he [Commentary Magazine's Gabriel Schoenfeld, on which the American Thinker writer bases his claims] claims, “Barack Obama’s top expert on matters nuclear.”

My friends, this is how the right-wing smear machine works. They repeat each other's lies until they become "fact".

As for the rest of your comments, Yousef's full quote was, "We don't mind-actually we like Mr. Obama. We hope he will (win) the election and I do believe he is like John Kennedy, great man with great principle, and he has a vision to change America to make it in a position to lead the world community but not with domination and arrogance." Regardless, when did you start taking terrorists' words at face value, anyway?

Here's what Obama has said about Hamas, "Hamas is not a state, Hamas is a terrorist organization."

"We must not negotiate with a terrorist group intent on Israel's destruction. We should only sit down with Hamas if they renounce terrorism, recognize Israel's right to exist, and abide by past agreements."

Then again, you don't take what Obama says at face value either.

L'oiseau said...

Silly me, I thought there were average citizens in all those countries that are in danger of Israel's nukes pointed at them 24/7. My bad.

Dennis said...


Well, that bastion of Right Wing Fundamentalism, the Daily Kos, lists Cirincione as an Obama advisor:

"At the same time, Obama's team includes some of the most forward-thinking members of the Democratic foreign policy establishment--like Joseph Cirincione and Lawrence Korb of the Center for American Progress..."

Apparently its not just the Right who have been hoodwinked somehow.

He's also listed as a foreign policy advisor on "Foreign Policy in Focus":

"Senator Barack Obama’s foreign policy advisers...have also included some of the more enlightened and creative members of the Democratic Party establishment, such as Joseph Cirincione and Lawrence Korb of the Center for American Progress

Cirincione is also listed on Obama's website as one of the experts supporting Obama. Whether he is an offical advisor or not, Obama was proud enough of his support to list it on the offical Obama website:

Perhaps you should have looked for more than two minutes (and by the way, your link didn't work).

Finally, you asked when we started taking terrorists words at face value. What exactly are you suggesting? Do you think this Hamas guy, Yousef, is publically lying about his support for Obama because he is secretly supporting McCain? That's funny! LOL!

Dennis said...


You think the Arab countries are in danger from Israel!? It is the Arab countries that won't recognize Israel's right to exist, not the other way around.

It is Middle East Muslims who have repeatedly expressed their desire (obsession) to run Irael into the sea--and they've actually gone to war trying to do just that!

It is Israel's neighbors who send suicide bombers to Israel to blow up innocent civilians! Israel merely responds when they get attacked.

In negotiations under President Clinton, Israel finally agreed to give away the farm: 95% of the West Bank, all of Gaza, the eastern half of Jerusalem and part of the Negev." Arafat refused.

Israel has not threatened to wipe Iran off the map, like Iran has threatened Israel.

Many Middle Eastern Muslims do not want peace with Israel--they want nothing less than the destruction of Israel.

With nuclear weapons, at least Israel has something to make their enemies think twice. Without nuclear weapons who are they going to rely on? The United Nations? Obama? Please!

Brent said...

My link works just fine, I just tested it again. You should read it, because it also addresses this guy's supposed anti-Israel bias.

As for Yousef's motives, I wouldn't speculate on them. But would you really put it past them to say things just to screw with our electoral process? Or are you going to start defending them now that they've said something you agree with?

And your original comments implied that Obama must have some anti-Israel bias as well, but the quotes I provided show he doesn't. I guess you don't want to admit I'm right about that though.

St.Lee said...

I cut and pasted the link, and it worked for me. Quite interesting. I picked a story more or less at random and then read the comments. It was like eavesdropping on a bunch of 5th graders really proud of their newfound filthy language. All I can say is, Brent - thank you for cleaning up your language when you comment here. (no I didn't see any comments from Brent there, so I can rightly be charged with judging him by the company he keeps)

Brent said...

I found that link while doing an Internet search for information relevant to the topic at hand. I hadn't been there before, so it's not really company that I keep. But you can judge me if you'd like, you'll be at least the second one on this site to do so. Surely a saint knows to judge not lest ye be judged though.

L'oiseau said...

Anything other than hand-wringing at curse words that anyone has to add about that article?

St.Lee said...

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1 Corinthians 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1 Corinthians 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

You see, the trouble with taking one verse out of context is that it can to an overall misunderstanding of scripture. But God bless you for giving me an excuse to quote the Bible!

St.Lee said...

Dennis, I am sure that you immediately realized that I too took these verses out of context just now. I apologize. I am a little curious whether anyone else will catch how I took them out of context though.

Brent said...

I'm not sure what your point is, or why you think you know everything about me and can even judge my character (or whatever else you're judging) just because I provided a link to a website that contains profanity in some of its discussions. But I suppose that's the world I step into every time I visit this site.

L'oiseau said...

St. Lee,

The "verses within context" discussion is probably better used with a believer.

You could have just explained simply and clearly how the verse was used out of context, in your view. But instead you decided to have a private inside joke about the Scriptures with Dennis at the exclusion of Brent and others.

St.Lee said...

Brent, How does anyone know another person except by what he says, who he associates himself with, etc. True enough that on the internet the amount of that information is limited, so one can only form a limited opinion. Still, my guess is that you have an opinion about what I am like based on my responses also. Using the name St. Lee makes you think I am some kind of self righteous hypocrite, right? You might call that judging.

I guess I need to explain my last response which I addressed to Dennis. The three verses I quoted from Corinthians were taken totally out of context in regard to this conversation. The apostle Paul was addressing a Christian church about judging members within that same body of believers. The way I quoted them made it look as though I was using them as an excuse to judge you. That would be wrong on my part. Just as using the verse which says judge not lest ye be judged to say that no one should form an opinion on what is right/wrong or what someone's character is like.

Dennis, sorry if it seems like I have hijacked your post. I'm going to try to shut up now

Brent said...

I happen to be a believer myself, I just choose not to bring that up when discussing politics on this site. St. Lee, I don't think you are self-righteous or a hypocrite, my comment was a half-joking attempt to show my frustration at people who seem to be making assumptions about me based on my politics or a simple link to a web site. It's been happening since my first comments here, as I recall Dennis assumed I'm gay (I am not) because I criticized a comment of his about homosexuality.

But now we're completely off course so maybe we should all just agree to let this go. :-)

Dennis said...


St. Lee was reacting to your statement that "Surely a saint knows to judge not lest ye be judged though."

I won't pass judgment :-) on what you did or did not mean by your quotation, but that verse is often used as if to say no one should judge anyone, anywhere, anytime about anything whatsoever. I think St. Lee was right to point out that this is a terrible misinterpretation of that verse. I could explain but I think you're right about letting all this go.

Brent said...

I wasn't trying to give a theology lesson, just expressing my incredulity at having opinions formed about me based on something so absolutely asinine. As I said, I suppose that's what kind of world you guys live in. Whatever, I'm letting it go now.

L'oiseau said...